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	<title>Comments on: Them&#8217;s fightin&#8217; words: American beers lack nuance</title>
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		<title>By: Stan Hieronymus</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/thems-fightin-words-american-beers-lack-nuance/comment-page-1/#comment-56385</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan Hieronymus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/thems-fightin-words-american-beers-lack-nuance/#comment-56385</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;I guess they’re easier to talk about.&lt;/em&gt;

An important and overlooked point.

As to the list of best selling beers. I got a little windy, so made it a &lt;a href=&quot;http://appellationbeer.com/blog/the-best-selling-us-beers-circa-2007/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;separate post&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I guess they’re easier to talk about.</em></p>
<p>An important and overlooked point.</p>
<p>As to the list of best selling beers. I got a little windy, so made it a <a href="http://appellationbeer.com/blog/the-best-selling-us-beers-circa-2007/" rel="nofollow">separate post</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Stonch</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/thems-fightin-words-american-beers-lack-nuance/comment-page-1/#comment-56356</link>
		<dc:creator>Stonch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/thems-fightin-words-american-beers-lack-nuance/#comment-56356</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The big beers may get the most attention, but they don’t sell well&lt;/i&gt;

Yes. I suppose the only reason people might feel differently is that those who enter reviews and engage in discussions on the big beer websites (BA and Ratebeer, principally) tend to focus on the extreme beers. And why not, I suppose. I guess they&#039;re easier to talk about.

I&#039;ve begun to think people are getting their knickers in a twist for nothing with this whole extreme v. session beer thing, me included. Maybe it&#039;s just a big non-issue.

I&#039;d be interested to know what the top ten selling American craft beers are? Does anyone have that info?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The big beers may get the most attention, but they don’t sell well</i></p>
<p>Yes. I suppose the only reason people might feel differently is that those who enter reviews and engage in discussions on the big beer websites (BA and Ratebeer, principally) tend to focus on the extreme beers. And why not, I suppose. I guess they&#8217;re easier to talk about.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve begun to think people are getting their knickers in a twist for nothing with this whole extreme v. session beer thing, me included. Maybe it&#8217;s just a big non-issue.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be interested to know what the top ten selling American craft beers are? Does anyone have that info?</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/thems-fightin-words-american-beers-lack-nuance/comment-page-1/#comment-56148</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 06:37:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/thems-fightin-words-american-beers-lack-nuance/#comment-56148</guid>
		<description>I agree with the thrust of all your comments. Don&#039;t know who Jeff Boda is either, but the article first appeared in the International Herald Tribune some weeks ago.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/09/25/travel/trbeer.php
I didn&#039;t get real excited about that slipup and lack of depth because in general it was a positive article about Japanese craft beer, and you don&#039;t see many of those in the big press, or negative ones for that matter. Most mainstream articles about any given specialty topic seem to make at least one or too cock-ups, this time in making some sweeping generalizations about an iceberg based on the shape of its tip.

To be sure, there are very few big-ass Japanese craft beers. But there certainly are some. Even the biggest and baddest are also probably toned down from the biggest and baddest US beers, but otherwise the general character is similar. 

And when you try to generalize about the respective industries overall, I think that what the author is calling &quot;subtlety&quot; in Japanese craft beer could just as easily be referred to as &quot;blandness&quot;. The article states there are about 280 craft breweries. Sure, but there probably less than 20 of those have any real reputation as consistent producers of really good beer. Amongst the rest there is a whole swag of breweries producing technically competent but remarkably unremarkable beers -- subtle? Yes, perhaps, or just well-made beers following closely (at best) in the footsteps of the original style (alt, koelsch, pils, weizen, apa, ipa, etc). Nothing to make you grab your notebook and start writing feverishly. And then there are the dogs, which unfortunately still exist at far too high a level for the industry&#039;s good.

Also, just as an aside, the guy in the photo, Aoki-san, is one hell of a good guy and a great champion of craft beer. He was the catalyst for a craft beer festival on September 30 which was basically a consortium of the cream of Japanese craft breweries directly putting on a festival for the consumers without any middlemen. While planned long before MJ&#039;s untimely passing, it coincided with the national toast in the US and we were able to put on a nice tribute with large posters of MJ hung over the stage. Beer writer Bryan Harrell (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bento.com/brews.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Brews News&lt;/a&gt;) made a great speech in Japanese in honor of MJ and we even managed to hold a minute&#039;s silence ... yes, in the middle of a beer festival! That was a special moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the thrust of all your comments. Don&#8217;t know who Jeff Boda is either, but the article first appeared in the International Herald Tribune some weeks ago.<br />
<a href="http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/09/25/travel/trbeer.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/09/25/travel/trbeer.php</a><br />
I didn&#8217;t get real excited about that slipup and lack of depth because in general it was a positive article about Japanese craft beer, and you don&#8217;t see many of those in the big press, or negative ones for that matter. Most mainstream articles about any given specialty topic seem to make at least one or too cock-ups, this time in making some sweeping generalizations about an iceberg based on the shape of its tip.</p>
<p>To be sure, there are very few big-ass Japanese craft beers. But there certainly are some. Even the biggest and baddest are also probably toned down from the biggest and baddest US beers, but otherwise the general character is similar. </p>
<p>And when you try to generalize about the respective industries overall, I think that what the author is calling &#8220;subtlety&#8221; in Japanese craft beer could just as easily be referred to as &#8220;blandness&#8221;. The article states there are about 280 craft breweries. Sure, but there probably less than 20 of those have any real reputation as consistent producers of really good beer. Amongst the rest there is a whole swag of breweries producing technically competent but remarkably unremarkable beers &#8212; subtle? Yes, perhaps, or just well-made beers following closely (at best) in the footsteps of the original style (alt, koelsch, pils, weizen, apa, ipa, etc). Nothing to make you grab your notebook and start writing feverishly. And then there are the dogs, which unfortunately still exist at far too high a level for the industry&#8217;s good.</p>
<p>Also, just as an aside, the guy in the photo, Aoki-san, is one hell of a good guy and a great champion of craft beer. He was the catalyst for a craft beer festival on September 30 which was basically a consortium of the cream of Japanese craft breweries directly putting on a festival for the consumers without any middlemen. While planned long before MJ&#8217;s untimely passing, it coincided with the national toast in the US and we were able to put on a nice tribute with large posters of MJ hung over the stage. Beer writer Bryan Harrell (<a href="http://www.bento.com/brews.html" rel="nofollow">Brews News</a>) made a great speech in Japanese in honor of MJ and we even managed to hold a minute&#8217;s silence &#8230; yes, in the middle of a beer festival! That was a special moment.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Alworth</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/thems-fightin-words-american-beers-lack-nuance/comment-page-1/#comment-56103</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Alworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 00:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/thems-fightin-words-american-beers-lack-nuance/#comment-56103</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;while most American craft beers embrace an onslaught of flavor with all the nuance of a sledgehammer.&lt;/i&gt;

This is hard to defend on any level.  Even here in Beervana, which is surely the most criticized for steroidal beer, the charge doesn&#039;t hold water.  Best-selling beers: BridgePort IPA, Deschutes Mirror Pond and Black Butte Porter, Widmer Hef.  The big beers may get the most attention, but they don&#039;t sell well, nor do they constitute anything like &quot;most&quot; of any brewery&#039;s stable.  

It&#039;s a silly, sloppy comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>while most American craft beers embrace an onslaught of flavor with all the nuance of a sledgehammer.</i></p>
<p>This is hard to defend on any level.  Even here in Beervana, which is surely the most criticized for steroidal beer, the charge doesn&#8217;t hold water.  Best-selling beers: BridgePort IPA, Deschutes Mirror Pond and Black Butte Porter, Widmer Hef.  The big beers may get the most attention, but they don&#8217;t sell well, nor do they constitute anything like &#8220;most&#8221; of any brewery&#8217;s stable.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a silly, sloppy comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/thems-fightin-words-american-beers-lack-nuance/comment-page-1/#comment-55959</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2007 13:05:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/thems-fightin-words-american-beers-lack-nuance/#comment-55959</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d like to know Jeff Boda&#039;s (author) credentials before I lend any weight to his comments.  From what I can tell he&#039;s no Michael Jackson and surely, Michael never made a comment like that, throwing the baby out with the bath water.

I expect better from the &lt;i&gt;Times&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to know Jeff Boda&#8217;s (author) credentials before I lend any weight to his comments.  From what I can tell he&#8217;s no Michael Jackson and surely, Michael never made a comment like that, throwing the baby out with the bath water.</p>
<p>I expect better from the <i>Times</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: Stan Hieronymus</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/thems-fightin-words-american-beers-lack-nuance/comment-page-1/#comment-55951</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan Hieronymus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2007 12:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/thems-fightin-words-american-beers-lack-nuance/#comment-55951</guid>
		<description>Amen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen.</p>
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		<title>By: Stonch</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/thems-fightin-words-american-beers-lack-nuance/comment-page-1/#comment-55949</link>
		<dc:creator>Stonch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2007 11:57:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/thems-fightin-words-american-beers-lack-nuance/#comment-55949</guid>
		<description>I think the reporter was simply wrong to make the comment he did about US beer. The more mainstream craft beers - the bestsellers - don&#039;t fit his description at all, after all.

The info about Japanese beer is interesting though. 

I&#039;m just tired of people trying to compare brewing cultures - yes Garrett included - instead of celebrating them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the reporter was simply wrong to make the comment he did about US beer. The more mainstream craft beers &#8211; the bestsellers &#8211; don&#8217;t fit his description at all, after all.</p>
<p>The info about Japanese beer is interesting though. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m just tired of people trying to compare brewing cultures &#8211; yes Garrett included &#8211; instead of celebrating them.</p>
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		<title>By: Stan Hieronymus</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/thems-fightin-words-american-beers-lack-nuance/comment-page-1/#comment-55848</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan Hieronymus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2007 02:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/thems-fightin-words-american-beers-lack-nuance/#comment-55848</guid>
		<description>It is curious that I think you are referring to two recent articles - one waving the American flag (Garrett Oliver&#039;s op-ed piece) and one knocking American boorish brewing behavior - that are both in the &lt;em&gt;New York Times.&lt;/em&gt; It seems so uncivilized for the &lt;em&gt;Times.&lt;/em&gt;

On the other hand you might not like my headline. So I&#039;ll simply note that if the reporter said &lt;em&gt;some&lt;/em&gt; instead &lt;em&gt;most&lt;/em&gt; that would have been fair.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is curious that I think you are referring to two recent articles &#8211; one waving the American flag (Garrett Oliver&#8217;s op-ed piece) and one knocking American boorish brewing behavior &#8211; that are both in the <em>New York Times.</em> It seems so uncivilized for the <em>Times.</em></p>
<p>On the other hand you might not like my headline. So I&#8217;ll simply note that if the reporter said <em>some</em> instead <em>most</em> that would have been fair.</p>
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		<title>By: Stonch</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/thems-fightin-words-american-beers-lack-nuance/comment-page-1/#comment-55844</link>
		<dc:creator>Stonch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2007 01:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/thems-fightin-words-american-beers-lack-nuance/#comment-55844</guid>
		<description>Would it be too much to ask to keep the nationalism out of politics? I don&#039;t want blood in my pint. I appreciate all beer cultures. I don&#039;t want to choose between them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would it be too much to ask to keep the nationalism out of politics? I don&#8217;t want blood in my pint. I appreciate all beer cultures. I don&#8217;t want to choose between them.</p>
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