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	<title>Comments on: Monday morning musing: Grading on a curve?</title>
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		<title>By: Stan Hieronymus</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/monday-morning-musing-grading-on-a-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-117209</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan Hieronymus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/monday-morning-musing-grading-on-a-curve/#comment-117209</guid>
		<description>Ron - Does that mean we should visit the Herold brewery in November? (I might even ask about their mashing regimen.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron &#8211; Does that mean we should visit the Herold brewery in November? (I might even ask about their mashing regimen.)</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Pattinson</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/monday-morning-musing-grading-on-a-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-117183</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Pattinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:40:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/monday-morning-musing-grading-on-a-curve/#comment-117183</guid>
		<description>Herold Kvasnicove. Another great lager.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Herold Kvasnicove. Another great lager.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Pattinson</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/monday-morning-musing-grading-on-a-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-117182</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Pattinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/monday-morning-musing-grading-on-a-curve/#comment-117182</guid>
		<description>&quot;Jeff Holt at Wort’s Going on Here? wonders why not a single American macro can get a decent score at the beer rating sites.&quot;

I love lager. I really do. Lagers in general get poorer scores than they deserve.

But, American macro lagers are crap. 

British, Dutch and Belgian macro lagers, too. 

Crap beer, brewed by faceless corporations with enough advertising money behind them to delude the unwary.

Hofmann Export - that&#039;s lager.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Jeff Holt at Wort’s Going on Here? wonders why not a single American macro can get a decent score at the beer rating sites.&#8221;</p>
<p>I love lager. I really do. Lagers in general get poorer scores than they deserve.</p>
<p>But, American macro lagers are crap. </p>
<p>British, Dutch and Belgian macro lagers, too. </p>
<p>Crap beer, brewed by faceless corporations with enough advertising money behind them to delude the unwary.</p>
<p>Hofmann Export &#8211; that&#8217;s lager.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/monday-morning-musing-grading-on-a-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-116926</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/monday-morning-musing-grading-on-a-curve/#comment-116926</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;...But isn’t it a little snobby to turn up your nose at dozens of beer styles, and the hundreds or thousands of examples within each style, and assume that you know you won’t like ANY of them?...&lt;/i&gt;

Only if it is snobby to not take up stamp collecting or train spotting.  I do see your point but I think we have to realize everyone is not going to have the same hobby and many who do not like beer fulfill their pleasure in a wide variety of tastes otherwise.  And, frankly, if I had the time and the money I would spend my life happily comparing and cross referencing every port (tawny, vintage, LBV, crusted and even ruby) as against every sort of blue cheese and every sort of pear. But I don&#039;t do that even though I love it and know it would make me a nicer person and a better dancer.  

This sort of goes to the problem with passion.  People have only so many hours in the day and so much available to personal interests. If some do not go for craft beer, who am I to fault them?  And if some do and go for it to a degree that is detrimental to other interests, who am I to praise them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8230;But isn’t it a little snobby to turn up your nose at dozens of beer styles, and the hundreds or thousands of examples within each style, and assume that you know you won’t like ANY of them?&#8230;</i></p>
<p>Only if it is snobby to not take up stamp collecting or train spotting.  I do see your point but I think we have to realize everyone is not going to have the same hobby and many who do not like beer fulfill their pleasure in a wide variety of tastes otherwise.  And, frankly, if I had the time and the money I would spend my life happily comparing and cross referencing every port (tawny, vintage, LBV, crusted and even ruby) as against every sort of blue cheese and every sort of pear. But I don&#8217;t do that even though I love it and know it would make me a nicer person and a better dancer.  </p>
<p>This sort of goes to the problem with passion.  People have only so many hours in the day and so much available to personal interests. If some do not go for craft beer, who am I to fault them?  And if some do and go for it to a degree that is detrimental to other interests, who am I to praise them?</p>
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		<title>By: JJ</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/monday-morning-musing-grading-on-a-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-116895</link>
		<dc:creator>JJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/monday-morning-musing-grading-on-a-curve/#comment-116895</guid>
		<description>Well, but is it more snobby to be open to lots of tastes and give them all a chance or to only drink one style exclusively?

I think it&#039;s only snobby to prefer microbrews to macrobrews if you never try the macrobrews and write them off before tasting them.  This was my initial point about blind tastings: I think some macrobrews have some merit, if only we microbrew drinkers would set aside our biases and taste them blind.  

So, I don&#039;t fault people for liking American macro-lagers (espeically those who like it IN ADDITION to other styles), and I don&#039;t presume that all of them are ignorant to what else is out there, as many do.  But isn&#039;t it a little snobby to turn up your nose at dozens of beer styles, and the hundreds or thousands of examples within each style, and assume that you know you won&#039;t like ANY of them? 

This gets back to Bill &amp; Mario&#039;s points: if it REALLY is about knowing that you prefer American light lager and nothing else, and it&#039;s not about advertising, or affordability, than why aren&#039;t there similar sized contingents of beer drinkers for other styles that drink ONLY that one style?  E.g. exclusive stout drinkers, exclusive wheat beer drinkers, exclusive sour ale drinkers?  If it were about taste, wouldn&#039;t we see groups like this too?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, but is it more snobby to be open to lots of tastes and give them all a chance or to only drink one style exclusively?</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s only snobby to prefer microbrews to macrobrews if you never try the macrobrews and write them off before tasting them.  This was my initial point about blind tastings: I think some macrobrews have some merit, if only we microbrew drinkers would set aside our biases and taste them blind.  </p>
<p>So, I don&#8217;t fault people for liking American macro-lagers (espeically those who like it IN ADDITION to other styles), and I don&#8217;t presume that all of them are ignorant to what else is out there, as many do.  But isn&#8217;t it a little snobby to turn up your nose at dozens of beer styles, and the hundreds or thousands of examples within each style, and assume that you know you won&#8217;t like ANY of them? </p>
<p>This gets back to Bill &amp; Mario&#8217;s points: if it REALLY is about knowing that you prefer American light lager and nothing else, and it&#8217;s not about advertising, or affordability, than why aren&#8217;t there similar sized contingents of beer drinkers for other styles that drink ONLY that one style?  E.g. exclusive stout drinkers, exclusive wheat beer drinkers, exclusive sour ale drinkers?  If it were about taste, wouldn&#8217;t we see groups like this too?</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/monday-morning-musing-grading-on-a-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-116880</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/monday-morning-musing-grading-on-a-curve/#comment-116880</guid>
		<description>&quot;...People who drink macro beers don’t necessarily prefer the taste of these beers...&quot;

I am not going to say this is pure snobbery but it is not far from its neighbourhood.  While I have turned plenty of folk on to good beer, many people like lighter lagers because they actually like the taste of lighter lagers and not because the TV tells them what to do. My pals who do are aware of the beers I have shared with them and many say thanks but no thanks.  I have an acquaintance who is a particularly fine cook, quite particular and capable in terms of taste awareness who simply does not care for anything but a cold crisp light beer.  

Being self-aware about the rights of others to be not judged for being unlike craft beer hobbyists is sometimes useful.  It&#039;s no different from me putting up with the pro-Cantillon lobby.  I don&#039;t think I am going to love it anytime soon any more than I expect certain people to turn to DIPAs and oatmeal stouts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;People who drink macro beers don’t necessarily prefer the taste of these beers&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>I am not going to say this is pure snobbery but it is not far from its neighbourhood.  While I have turned plenty of folk on to good beer, many people like lighter lagers because they actually like the taste of lighter lagers and not because the TV tells them what to do. My pals who do are aware of the beers I have shared with them and many say thanks but no thanks.  I have an acquaintance who is a particularly fine cook, quite particular and capable in terms of taste awareness who simply does not care for anything but a cold crisp light beer.  </p>
<p>Being self-aware about the rights of others to be not judged for being unlike craft beer hobbyists is sometimes useful.  It&#8217;s no different from me putting up with the pro-Cantillon lobby.  I don&#8217;t think I am going to love it anytime soon any more than I expect certain people to turn to DIPAs and oatmeal stouts.</p>
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		<title>By: Mario (Brewed For Thought)</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/monday-morning-musing-grading-on-a-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-116868</link>
		<dc:creator>Mario (Brewed For Thought)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:49:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/monday-morning-musing-grading-on-a-curve/#comment-116868</guid>
		<description>Stephen, I think the &quot;common man&quot; is convinced he is looking for something else by marketing.  As JJ said, his Coors Light drinking buddies loved barleywines.  At a dinner I had at Marin brewing, the Coors Light crowd was going crazy over the Wheat wine and rave about their trips to Russian River.  Just because we can identify what we&#039;re looking for doesn&#039;t mean that we&#039;re not all looking for a quality beer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen, I think the &#8220;common man&#8221; is convinced he is looking for something else by marketing.  As JJ said, his Coors Light drinking buddies loved barleywines.  At a dinner I had at Marin brewing, the Coors Light crowd was going crazy over the Wheat wine and rave about their trips to Russian River.  Just because we can identify what we&#8217;re looking for doesn&#8217;t mean that we&#8217;re not all looking for a quality beer.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Beaumont</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/monday-morning-musing-grading-on-a-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-116867</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Beaumont</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/monday-morning-musing-grading-on-a-curve/#comment-116867</guid>
		<description>Bill, for some reason your comment never registered over at thatsthespirit.com, so I&#039;ll answer you here instead. Eric&#039;s point, and mine, has nothing to do with marketing, since the wine tastings that form the backbone of &quot;The Wine Trials&quot; were indeed conducted blind. That is the basis for the author&#039;s contention that critics and so-called experts are out of touch with the proverbial &quot;common man.&quot; What Eric was saying, and I reiterating with application to beer, is that writers/critics/whatevers like yourself and myself and, yes, even you, Stan, are looking for different qualities in these beverages than is the &quot;common man.&quot; 

This is not to discount marketing, of course, which is a massive influence in beer. (That&#039;s why A-B spends hundreds of millions on it.) But in this particular case, that influence is moot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, for some reason your comment never registered over at thatsthespirit.com, so I&#8217;ll answer you here instead. Eric&#8217;s point, and mine, has nothing to do with marketing, since the wine tastings that form the backbone of &#8220;The Wine Trials&#8221; were indeed conducted blind. That is the basis for the author&#8217;s contention that critics and so-called experts are out of touch with the proverbial &#8220;common man.&#8221; What Eric was saying, and I reiterating with application to beer, is that writers/critics/whatevers like yourself and myself and, yes, even you, Stan, are looking for different qualities in these beverages than is the &#8220;common man.&#8221; </p>
<p>This is not to discount marketing, of course, which is a massive influence in beer. (That&#8217;s why A-B spends hundreds of millions on it.) But in this particular case, that influence is moot.</p>
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		<title>By: William Brand</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/monday-morning-musing-grading-on-a-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-116839</link>
		<dc:creator>William Brand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/monday-morning-musing-grading-on-a-curve/#comment-116839</guid>
		<description>Hey Stan, great idea. I&#039;m writing it down. I could do it at the home of the DIPA, the Bistro in Hayward, Ca.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Stan, great idea. I&#8217;m writing it down. I could do it at the home of the DIPA, the Bistro in Hayward, Ca.</p>
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		<title>By: Mario (Brewed For Thought)</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/monday-morning-musing-grading-on-a-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-116739</link>
		<dc:creator>Mario (Brewed For Thought)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/monday-morning-musing-grading-on-a-curve/#comment-116739</guid>
		<description>Stan, I&#039;m not saying I agree with all the ratings on Ratebeer, but that there is a way to read the numbers.

And Steel Reserve is also a Gold Medal winner.  I guess every system has its flaws.

Finally, I love your blind head to head tasting idea.  Moonlight does have a pils (Reality Czech), and it&#039;s rather nice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stan, I&#8217;m not saying I agree with all the ratings on Ratebeer, but that there is a way to read the numbers.</p>
<p>And Steel Reserve is also a Gold Medal winner.  I guess every system has its flaws.</p>
<p>Finally, I love your blind head to head tasting idea.  Moonlight does have a pils (Reality Czech), and it&#8217;s rather nice.</p>
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