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	<title>Comments on: In praise of simply made beers</title>
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	<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/in-praise-of-simply-made-beers/</link>
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		<title>By: Stan Hieronymus</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/in-praise-of-simply-made-beers/comment-page-1/#comment-43310</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan Hieronymus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 17:04:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/in-praise-of-simply-made-beers/#comment-43310</guid>
		<description>I really like &lt;a href=&quot;http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2007/08/epiphany.html#comment-8977864885017925889&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Boak&#039;s comment to Ron&#039;s post&lt;/a&gt;.

We have the good fortune in the U.S. to have access - sometimes it takes a little work - to both sessionable beers and more intensely flavored ones (8 ounces might be enough).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really like <a href="http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2007/08/epiphany.html#comment-8977864885017925889" rel="nofollow">Boak&#8217;s comment to Ron&#8217;s post</a>.</p>
<p>We have the good fortune in the U.S. to have access &#8211; sometimes it takes a little work &#8211; to both sessionable beers and more intensely flavored ones (8 ounces might be enough).</p>
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		<title>By: Stonch</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/in-praise-of-simply-made-beers/comment-page-1/#comment-43302</link>
		<dc:creator>Stonch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:30:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/in-praise-of-simply-made-beers/#comment-43302</guid>
		<description>My question was semi-rhetorical, let us say.

What I think is that the solid and sessionable beers from the craft brewers are going to be the ones that supplant the detestable macrobrews. The super-duper-imperial stuff is only ever going to command a small part of the market - who wants to drink lots of that stuff?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My question was semi-rhetorical, let us say.</p>
<p>What I think is that the solid and sessionable beers from the craft brewers are going to be the ones that supplant the detestable macrobrews. The super-duper-imperial stuff is only ever going to command a small part of the market &#8211; who wants to drink lots of that stuff?</p>
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		<title>By: Loren</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/in-praise-of-simply-made-beers/comment-page-1/#comment-43298</link>
		<dc:creator>Loren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/in-praise-of-simply-made-beers/#comment-43298</guid>
		<description>Pfth! Ron&#039;s just spouting off about these subtle beers because he can&#039;t get a hold of the really awesome Imperial this-and-that offerings from US...that&#039;s all.

Has he shut up about Barclay Perkins yet? Just wondering...

Seriously though...I think there&#039;s a better word out there than &quot;simple&quot; in this case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pfth! Ron&#8217;s just spouting off about these subtle beers because he can&#8217;t get a hold of the really awesome Imperial this-and-that offerings from US&#8230;that&#8217;s all.</p>
<p>Has he shut up about Barclay Perkins yet? Just wondering&#8230;</p>
<p>Seriously though&#8230;I think there&#8217;s a better word out there than &#8220;simple&#8221; in this case.</p>
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		<title>By: SteveH</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/in-praise-of-simply-made-beers/comment-page-1/#comment-43281</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/in-praise-of-simply-made-beers/#comment-43281</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;I’d rather think about the next “honest beer” I sit down in front of than how it is going to survive.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Well, last year&#039;s Spaten Oktoberfest was pretty honest to my palate, I only hope it survived change to another year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;I’d rather think about the next “honest beer” I sit down in front of than how it is going to survive.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Well, last year&#8217;s Spaten Oktoberfest was pretty honest to my palate, I only hope it survived change to another year.</p>
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		<title>By: Stan Hieronymus</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/in-praise-of-simply-made-beers/comment-page-1/#comment-43280</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan Hieronymus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:32:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/in-praise-of-simply-made-beers/#comment-43280</guid>
		<description>Stonch - Since I am far from Germany and pay much more attention to what is going on here it would be even dumber for me to suggest &quot;helpful&quot; changes for German brewers than the example you provide.

But in the States we started at a far different place. We had to return to making beer and drinking beer with more flavor. That&#039;s been going on in Franconia forever. 

Here&#039;s the opinion part that is dangerous because it comes from thousands of miles away: The problem is not Franconian brewers. It is the big brewers who have reacted to declining beer sales by removing flavor from beer (Spaten lowering the IBU of its basic Hell from 25 to 20).

It sure doesn&#039;t look like they have much respect for traditional beer. Or are they just giving consumers what they want? 

Hey, it&#039;s 7:30 in the morning here and my head already hurts. We seem to have wandered into a far wider topic. I&#039;d rather think about the next &quot;honest beer&quot; I sit down in front of than how it is going to survive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stonch &#8211; Since I am far from Germany and pay much more attention to what is going on here it would be even dumber for me to suggest &#8220;helpful&#8221; changes for German brewers than the example you provide.</p>
<p>But in the States we started at a far different place. We had to return to making beer and drinking beer with more flavor. That&#8217;s been going on in Franconia forever. </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the opinion part that is dangerous because it comes from thousands of miles away: The problem is not Franconian brewers. It is the big brewers who have reacted to declining beer sales by removing flavor from beer (Spaten lowering the IBU of its basic Hell from 25 to 20).</p>
<p>It sure doesn&#8217;t look like they have much respect for traditional beer. Or are they just giving consumers what they want? </p>
<p>Hey, it&#8217;s 7:30 in the morning here and my head already hurts. We seem to have wandered into a far wider topic. I&#8217;d rather think about the next &#8220;honest beer&#8221; I sit down in front of than how it is going to survive.</p>
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		<title>By: Josquin</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/in-praise-of-simply-made-beers/comment-page-1/#comment-43269</link>
		<dc:creator>Josquin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 12:19:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/in-praise-of-simply-made-beers/#comment-43269</guid>
		<description>I like Stonch&#039;s final question &quot;What does that tell us?&quot;--but only if it isn&#039;t a rhetorical question (i.e. I do not believe that the only answer is &quot;It tells us that most craft breweries are overly experimental at their own detriment.&quot;) 

The marginal foothold of craft brewing be blamed even more on the corporate beer hegemony and its many advantages: the monopolization of shelf space, dominance in advertising, and the authority (remember &quot;King of Beers&quot;?) to miseducate consumers about what &quot;beer&quot; can even mean.  I even have a little problem with some of these side products--particularly the &quot;flavored&quot; beers--that propagate the concept of the alternative-beer-other within the U.S. market.  

Of course, there is a certain whininess to this stance--can&#039;t craft beer step up and hold its own? Boston Beer Company has a series of television advertisements that are educational in nature and define beer in craft brewing terms. But the problem in the U.S., I think, is still largely conceptual.  To U.S. consumers, those pricier six-packs still seem to represent alternatives--luxury alternatives--rather than things themselves.

If craft brewers began to adopt a new aesthetic of beer design, would this change the U.S. beer consumer climate? It wouldn&#039;t hurt, but then the craft brewing market would be liable to remain &quot;alternative&quot; in people&#039;s minds unless it could find ways to reassert itself culturally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like Stonch&#8217;s final question &#8220;What does that tell us?&#8221;&#8211;but only if it isn&#8217;t a rhetorical question (i.e. I do not believe that the only answer is &#8220;It tells us that most craft breweries are overly experimental at their own detriment.&#8221;) </p>
<p>The marginal foothold of craft brewing be blamed even more on the corporate beer hegemony and its many advantages: the monopolization of shelf space, dominance in advertising, and the authority (remember &#8220;King of Beers&#8221;?) to miseducate consumers about what &#8220;beer&#8221; can even mean.  I even have a little problem with some of these side products&#8211;particularly the &#8220;flavored&#8221; beers&#8211;that propagate the concept of the alternative-beer-other within the U.S. market.  </p>
<p>Of course, there is a certain whininess to this stance&#8211;can&#8217;t craft beer step up and hold its own? Boston Beer Company has a series of television advertisements that are educational in nature and define beer in craft brewing terms. But the problem in the U.S., I think, is still largely conceptual.  To U.S. consumers, those pricier six-packs still seem to represent alternatives&#8211;luxury alternatives&#8211;rather than things themselves.</p>
<p>If craft brewers began to adopt a new aesthetic of beer design, would this change the U.S. beer consumer climate? It wouldn&#8217;t hurt, but then the craft brewing market would be liable to remain &#8220;alternative&#8221; in people&#8217;s minds unless it could find ways to reassert itself culturally.</p>
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		<title>By: Stonch</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/in-praise-of-simply-made-beers/comment-page-1/#comment-43265</link>
		<dc:creator>Stonch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/in-praise-of-simply-made-beers/#comment-43265</guid>
		<description>People saying that the traditional brewing cultures of Europe are hidebound or show a lack of innovative flair may also have been Ron&#039;s target.

Recently it was contended by someone rather important in the beer world that German brewing is in the doldrums because they haven&#039;t invented any &quot;new&quot; beer styles recently. The suggestion seemed to be that by adopting off the wall recipes and breaking with tradition, brewers would be able to reverse the downward market trend.

Yes, there&#039;s been a marked decline in the German brewing industry. Copying the more extreme amongst US craft brewers is probably not the solution, though. There might be a market for the kind of beers that would produce, but it&#039;s going to be very small.

The US experience does nothing to disprove that - the craft beer segment is still a small fraction of the whole, and seems to be mainly comprised of a few solid, fairly sessionable beers from the more experienced breweries such as Sierra Nevada and Boston. What does that tell us?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People saying that the traditional brewing cultures of Europe are hidebound or show a lack of innovative flair may also have been Ron&#8217;s target.</p>
<p>Recently it was contended by someone rather important in the beer world that German brewing is in the doldrums because they haven&#8217;t invented any &#8220;new&#8221; beer styles recently. The suggestion seemed to be that by adopting off the wall recipes and breaking with tradition, brewers would be able to reverse the downward market trend.</p>
<p>Yes, there&#8217;s been a marked decline in the German brewing industry. Copying the more extreme amongst US craft brewers is probably not the solution, though. There might be a market for the kind of beers that would produce, but it&#8217;s going to be very small.</p>
<p>The US experience does nothing to disprove that &#8211; the craft beer segment is still a small fraction of the whole, and seems to be mainly comprised of a few solid, fairly sessionable beers from the more experienced breweries such as Sierra Nevada and Boston. What does that tell us?</p>
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		<title>By: Stan Hieronymus</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/in-praise-of-simply-made-beers/comment-page-1/#comment-43129</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan Hieronymus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:47:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/in-praise-of-simply-made-beers/#comment-43129</guid>
		<description>I suspect Ron was referring first to brewers/marketers when it comes to pretentious. But drinkers - particularly fans of certain beers and styles - certainly add to the impact.

I don&#039;t think it is fair to blame the beer in the glass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect Ron was referring first to brewers/marketers when it comes to pretentious. But drinkers &#8211; particularly fans of certain beers and styles &#8211; certainly add to the impact.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it is fair to blame the beer in the glass.</p>
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		<title>By: SteveH</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/in-praise-of-simply-made-beers/comment-page-1/#comment-43116</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 13:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/in-praise-of-simply-made-beers/#comment-43116</guid>
		<description>Some thoughts on pretentiousness came to over the weekend; can a beer, in and of its inert self, be pretentious?  Or is it the drinker - even the brewer/marketer that&#039;s truly guilty of the ostentacious air?

Seems to me that Sam Smith&#039;s Imperial Stout was coasting along as a nice, alternative beer choice -- basking in a history only a few knew or understood -- until the bombastic beer geeks decided it was the best style in the world (okay, I was in on the launch of the era too) and every beer needed to be bench-marked against it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some thoughts on pretentiousness came to over the weekend; can a beer, in and of its inert self, be pretentious?  Or is it the drinker &#8211; even the brewer/marketer that&#8217;s truly guilty of the ostentacious air?</p>
<p>Seems to me that Sam Smith&#8217;s Imperial Stout was coasting along as a nice, alternative beer choice &#8212; basking in a history only a few knew or understood &#8212; until the bombastic beer geeks decided it was the best style in the world (okay, I was in on the launch of the era too) and every beer needed to be bench-marked against it.</p>
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		<title>By: Brew like a BB King &#171; brewvana</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/in-praise-of-simply-made-beers/comment-page-1/#comment-43069</link>
		<dc:creator>Brew like a BB King &#171; brewvana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 06:46:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/in-praise-of-simply-made-beers/#comment-43069</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;m not the only person who found that post profound, as yesterday I noticed that Stan at Appellation Beer made reference to it as well. To me, the idea of &#8220;honest beer&#8221; is the very essence of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;m not the only person who found that post profound, as yesterday I noticed that Stan at Appellation Beer made reference to it as well. To me, the idea of &#8220;honest beer&#8221; is the very essence of [...]</p>
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