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	<title>Comments on: Higher education and higher beer education</title>
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		<title>By: Stan Hieronymus</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/higher-education-and-higher-beer-education/comment-page-1/#comment-49690</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan Hieronymus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:04:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Stonch - Much of the program focuses on technical aspects, such as clean lines, checking beer for freshness, etc.

I think there are parallels to the Cask Marque program. Is that a good program?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stonch &#8211; Much of the program focuses on technical aspects, such as clean lines, checking beer for freshness, etc.</p>
<p>I think there are parallels to the Cask Marque program. Is that a good program?</p>
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		<title>By: Stonch</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/higher-education-and-higher-beer-education/comment-page-1/#comment-49649</link>
		<dc:creator>Stonch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/higher-education-and-higher-beer-education/#comment-49649</guid>
		<description>I distrust these accreditation schemes. Apprecation of beer is something that comes instinctively, it&#039;s part of the fabric of society after all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I distrust these accreditation schemes. Apprecation of beer is something that comes instinctively, it&#8217;s part of the fabric of society after all.</p>
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		<title>By: Stan Hieronymus</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/higher-education-and-higher-beer-education/comment-page-1/#comment-48984</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan Hieronymus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/higher-education-and-higher-beer-education/#comment-48984</guid>
		<description>Jay - This is probably a discussion to have with Ray.

He&#039;ll welcome the input - and I think the goal is for the Cicerone.org site to soon have a discussion board.

When that happens let&#039;s continue this discussion there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay &#8211; This is probably a discussion to have with Ray.</p>
<p>He&#8217;ll welcome the input &#8211; and I think the goal is for the Cicerone.org site to soon have a discussion board.</p>
<p>When that happens let&#8217;s continue this discussion there.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/higher-education-and-higher-beer-education/comment-page-1/#comment-48975</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/higher-education-and-higher-beer-education/#comment-48975</guid>
		<description>I hear you Stan. I&#039;m half with you, though. How about -just- certify a &quot;Cicerone?&quot; The &quot;levels&quot; of certification are what bug me.

The program appears to be on the right track (in terms of educating servers, sellers ...). But isn&#039;t it undermining itself with the minutiae? 

These types of academic acheivement levels were an issue during the doomed-Beer Sommelier Certification Program, which I was lucky enough to have been on the planning committee back in 2001-ish. They are milestones to the seller/server, but they arbitrary to the consumer (the reason servers are taking the program in the first place, right?).

I think the bestowing of rather contrived sub-titles, or certification levels, to program participants is a step in the wrong direction. In fact, it&#039;s limiting. Why not make this an on-going program, where participants test and re-test to maintain their status as a Cicerone?

I&#039;m also wary of seeing a snob factor enter the beer world from the serving side. I&#039;m not saying this would happen, or that the program will create snobbery (I&#039;m not sure), just that it may open a door for servers to distinguish themselves as novice-experts, intermediate-experts or expert-experts. 

My argument is a bit absurd, but possible. Will Cicerones be good for the consumer in the end? I&#039;ll quietly wait and see. I&#039;d love to witness how a business changes when its servers go from server-to-Cicerone status.

And yes, I&#039;d gladly list a Cicerone in the next Beer Guppy, sans his/her levels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hear you Stan. I&#8217;m half with you, though. How about -just- certify a &#8220;Cicerone?&#8221; The &#8220;levels&#8221; of certification are what bug me.</p>
<p>The program appears to be on the right track (in terms of educating servers, sellers &#8230;). But isn&#8217;t it undermining itself with the minutiae? </p>
<p>These types of academic acheivement levels were an issue during the doomed-Beer Sommelier Certification Program, which I was lucky enough to have been on the planning committee back in 2001-ish. They are milestones to the seller/server, but they arbitrary to the consumer (the reason servers are taking the program in the first place, right?).</p>
<p>I think the bestowing of rather contrived sub-titles, or certification levels, to program participants is a step in the wrong direction. In fact, it&#8217;s limiting. Why not make this an on-going program, where participants test and re-test to maintain their status as a Cicerone?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also wary of seeing a snob factor enter the beer world from the serving side. I&#8217;m not saying this would happen, or that the program will create snobbery (I&#8217;m not sure), just that it may open a door for servers to distinguish themselves as novice-experts, intermediate-experts or expert-experts. </p>
<p>My argument is a bit absurd, but possible. Will Cicerones be good for the consumer in the end? I&#8217;ll quietly wait and see. I&#8217;d love to witness how a business changes when its servers go from server-to-Cicerone status.</p>
<p>And yes, I&#8217;d gladly list a Cicerone in the next Beer Guppy, sans his/her levels.</p>
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		<title>By: Stan Hieronymus</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/higher-education-and-higher-beer-education/comment-page-1/#comment-48947</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan Hieronymus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:41:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/higher-education-and-higher-beer-education/#comment-48947</guid>
		<description>Jay - This is a serious suggestion.

I think it would be great if the next edition of the &lt;em&gt;Beer Guppy&#039;s Guide&lt;/em&gt; [to those who haven&#039;t heard of this book it is on my list to review] listed if a place had a certified Cicerone.

Even how many and what levels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay &#8211; This is a serious suggestion.</p>
<p>I think it would be great if the next edition of the <em>Beer Guppy&#8217;s Guide</em> [to those who haven't heard of this book it is on my list to review] listed if a place had a certified Cicerone.</p>
<p>Even how many and what levels.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Beaumont</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/higher-education-and-higher-beer-education/comment-page-1/#comment-48939</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Beaumont</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/higher-education-and-higher-beer-education/#comment-48939</guid>
		<description>Coincidentally, The Globe and Mail newspaper this morning ran an unrelated editorial entitled &quot;Learning to Drink.&quot; (It&#039;s also online, but unfortunately only to subscribers.) In it, the editorial board endorses parents taking the time to educate their children on alcohol and drinking, citing a recent Canadian study which found that &quot;most parents of older youth accept that alcohol is a part of their teenager&#039;s existence.&quot;

Particularly laudable, in my view, is their conclusion:

&quot;Whatever the age, the danger is not in drinking a couple of beers, glasses of wine or spirits; it is the binge drinking all too common among both youth and adults, causing them to do damage to themselves and to others.

&quot;Moving us away from that excess culture will take time, but it starts with parents who are prepared to face up to reality.&quot;

Hmmm, I wonder if a major newspaper in the U.S. would have the guts to draw that conclusion?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coincidentally, The Globe and Mail newspaper this morning ran an unrelated editorial entitled &#8220;Learning to Drink.&#8221; (It&#8217;s also online, but unfortunately only to subscribers.) In it, the editorial board endorses parents taking the time to educate their children on alcohol and drinking, citing a recent Canadian study which found that &#8220;most parents of older youth accept that alcohol is a part of their teenager&#8217;s existence.&#8221;</p>
<p>Particularly laudable, in my view, is their conclusion:</p>
<p>&#8220;Whatever the age, the danger is not in drinking a couple of beers, glasses of wine or spirits; it is the binge drinking all too common among both youth and adults, causing them to do damage to themselves and to others.</p>
<p>&#8220;Moving us away from that excess culture will take time, but it starts with parents who are prepared to face up to reality.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hmmm, I wonder if a major newspaper in the U.S. would have the guts to draw that conclusion?</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/higher-education-and-higher-beer-education/comment-page-1/#comment-48933</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:06:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/higher-education-and-higher-beer-education/#comment-48933</guid>
		<description>At what level does one become &quot;clear&quot; in the Cicerontology Certification Program?

I&#039;d rather take a standardized drinking test. Sounds less silly.
;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At what level does one become &#8220;clear&#8221; in the Cicerontology Certification Program?</p>
<p>I&#8217;d rather take a standardized drinking test. Sounds less silly.<br />
 <img src='http://appellationbeer.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: SteveH</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/higher-education-and-higher-beer-education/comment-page-1/#comment-48918</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/higher-education-and-higher-beer-education/#comment-48918</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;8. Calculate your blood-alcohol content after consuming three beers in two hours.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;b&gt;

3 Pilsner Urquells, or 3 Aventinus?

&lt;/b&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;What - is the land speed of a swallow?!&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>8. Calculate your blood-alcohol content after consuming three beers in two hours.</b><b></p>
<p>3 Pilsner Urquells, or 3 Aventinus?</p>
<p></b><b><i>What &#8211; is the land speed of a swallow?!</i></b>  <img src='http://appellationbeer.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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