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	<title>Comments on: Come on in, the fringe is fine</title>
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		<title>By: Stan Hieronymus</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/come-on-in-the-fringe-is-fine/comment-page-1/#comment-250736</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan Hieronymus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:43:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/?p=1929#comment-250736</guid>
		<description>Well put, Amy. Obviously many craft brewers also choose to sell beer some distance from home.

One thing that is different from 1880 or 1980 is that it is now easier for somebody running a small brewery to make beer of similar technical quality to a larger brewery, at least if it is consumed rather quickly and close to home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well put, Amy. Obviously many craft brewers also choose to sell beer some distance from home.</p>
<p>One thing that is different from 1880 or 1980 is that it is now easier for somebody running a small brewery to make beer of similar technical quality to a larger brewery, at least if it is consumed rather quickly and close to home.</p>
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		<title>By: Amy</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/come-on-in-the-fringe-is-fine/comment-page-1/#comment-250735</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:21:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/?p=1929#comment-250735</guid>
		<description>I actually think it is ahistorical to assume that ambition is at the heart of every American economic decision and activity. In the nineteenth century, brewers were capable of remaining completely local and brewing over 100,000 barrels. Shipping brewers from the Midwest became national brewers for specific economic reasons and within a specific economic and historical context. Taking the long view does not mean you should flatten out historical differences and exceptions.

In today’s economic climate, I think there is validity in considering that in many ways there are two beer markets or industries, the huge mega brewers and then the craft beer industry. It seems to me that craft brewer can remain local and do very well. This could be his or her choice and a way of defining ambition on their own terms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually think it is ahistorical to assume that ambition is at the heart of every American economic decision and activity. In the nineteenth century, brewers were capable of remaining completely local and brewing over 100,000 barrels. Shipping brewers from the Midwest became national brewers for specific economic reasons and within a specific economic and historical context. Taking the long view does not mean you should flatten out historical differences and exceptions.</p>
<p>In today’s economic climate, I think there is validity in considering that in many ways there are two beer markets or industries, the huge mega brewers and then the craft beer industry. It seems to me that craft brewer can remain local and do very well. This could be his or her choice and a way of defining ambition on their own terms.</p>
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		<title>By: Maureen Ogle</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/come-on-in-the-fringe-is-fine/comment-page-1/#comment-250696</link>
		<dc:creator>Maureen Ogle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 17:39:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/?p=1929#comment-250696</guid>
		<description>Well, as always, you guys sound a hell of a lot smarter than me. 

And to confirm that, I&#039;ve posted the first of three chunks of what got edited out of the All About Beer essay. (Daniel originally asked for, and got, 4,000 words. He ran only 2,000.)

&lt;a href=&quot;http://maureenogle.com/2009/09/what-revolution-the-outtakes-part-1/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The first bit is here.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, as always, you guys sound a hell of a lot smarter than me. </p>
<p>And to confirm that, I&#8217;ve posted the first of three chunks of what got edited out of the All About Beer essay. (Daniel originally asked for, and got, 4,000 words. He ran only 2,000.)</p>
<p><a href="http://maureenogle.com/2009/09/what-revolution-the-outtakes-part-1/" rel="nofollow">The first bit is here.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Rick Garvin</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/come-on-in-the-fringe-is-fine/comment-page-1/#comment-250643</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Garvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:39:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/?p=1929#comment-250643</guid>
		<description>Stan, I just got back in touch with your blog after a Tom Cizauskas citation. It&#039;s a great read and great writing style. I&#039;m going to enjoy working through the backlog. See you in Denver.

Cheers, Rick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stan, I just got back in touch with your blog after a Tom Cizauskas citation. It&#8217;s a great read and great writing style. I&#8217;m going to enjoy working through the backlog. See you in Denver.</p>
<p>Cheers, Rick</p>
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		<title>By: Stan Hieronymus</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/come-on-in-the-fringe-is-fine/comment-page-1/#comment-250630</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan Hieronymus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:16:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/?p=1929#comment-250630</guid>
		<description>Well put, Alan, on all counts - both the pop culture aspect and the entrepreneurial one. I particularly like the &lt;a href=&quot;http://beerblog.genx40.com/archive/2009/september/thebabymaybeup&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;addition at your site&lt;/a&gt; and music analogy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well put, Alan, on all counts &#8211; both the pop culture aspect and the entrepreneurial one. I particularly like the <a href="http://beerblog.genx40.com/archive/2009/september/thebabymaybeup" rel="nofollow">addition at your site</a> and music analogy.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/come-on-in-the-fringe-is-fine/comment-page-1/#comment-250601</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/?p=1929#comment-250601</guid>
		<description>I think it is important to think about what we bring to any question, whether beery or not, whether history or ethics.  Maureen brings the interest in entrepreneurial achievement to her analysis - defining it as success - and sees the world through that lens. I am not entirely convinced by it but it is a good perspective if only because it is not the same perspective. I am also not convinced, Stan, that people actually gravitate to better tasting and local but I know you see it as a driver.  It is also a good one.

For me, asking how much more pop culture can the Great American Beer Festival handle is an oxymoron as the GABF is pop culture and in the consumer society pop culture is a huge force in creating identity in the consumer. Some and likely most will always want the homogeneity that connects them to others, helps them avoid standing out, being regular - succesful in the eyes of the neighbours. Success in the market will always feed upon that need. Others seek easily attained distinction that buying (and gathering knowledge and experience about) a low cost niche product offers. Hardscrabble lies that way but there is a living to be made. But few are actually seeking the path of enlightenment that is based on authenticity of the thing itself - beery or not.

Craft beer is revolutionary but only in that it is part of a larger movement. The US craft beer movement coincides with the arc of trends in music like punk rock, in politics like the breakdown of party affiliation, in deeper shifts like the move away from traditional denominations or any religious affiliation. Like buying better baked goods or not settling for acrid industrial residues label &quot;coffee&quot;. People will still buy white bread and white bread bakers will be well off. But it&#039;s not a very interesting element of the culture or indicative of where the culture is going. It&#039;s just where it&#039;s been.

To one degree or another, while have shaken off our &quot;betters&quot; and homogenized models of success, we have not necessarily replaced them with an improvement. For example, I see (from my high chair at the children&#039;s table) the move in recent years to &quot;pairing&quot; craft beer and holding expensive dinners (in addition to celebrity brewers) as just another in a line of attempts to find that sort of improvement, to stake a claim for craft beer to greater cultural validity beyond its place in (and defined by) the market.  But it seems overly self-conscious and, also, unnecessary.  Frankly, given the slight tinge of neediness, I am surprised a Canadian didn&#039;t come up with the idea. 

No, we don&#039;t find a revolution when we go looking because we are in the midst of evolution. A slower process but also more steadfast.  Until it is replaced by the next thing - as is always the case with pop culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is important to think about what we bring to any question, whether beery or not, whether history or ethics.  Maureen brings the interest in entrepreneurial achievement to her analysis &#8211; defining it as success &#8211; and sees the world through that lens. I am not entirely convinced by it but it is a good perspective if only because it is not the same perspective. I am also not convinced, Stan, that people actually gravitate to better tasting and local but I know you see it as a driver.  It is also a good one.</p>
<p>For me, asking how much more pop culture can the Great American Beer Festival handle is an oxymoron as the GABF is pop culture and in the consumer society pop culture is a huge force in creating identity in the consumer. Some and likely most will always want the homogeneity that connects them to others, helps them avoid standing out, being regular &#8211; succesful in the eyes of the neighbours. Success in the market will always feed upon that need. Others seek easily attained distinction that buying (and gathering knowledge and experience about) a low cost niche product offers. Hardscrabble lies that way but there is a living to be made. But few are actually seeking the path of enlightenment that is based on authenticity of the thing itself &#8211; beery or not.</p>
<p>Craft beer is revolutionary but only in that it is part of a larger movement. The US craft beer movement coincides with the arc of trends in music like punk rock, in politics like the breakdown of party affiliation, in deeper shifts like the move away from traditional denominations or any religious affiliation. Like buying better baked goods or not settling for acrid industrial residues label &#8220;coffee&#8221;. People will still buy white bread and white bread bakers will be well off. But it&#8217;s not a very interesting element of the culture or indicative of where the culture is going. It&#8217;s just where it&#8217;s been.</p>
<p>To one degree or another, while have shaken off our &#8220;betters&#8221; and homogenized models of success, we have not necessarily replaced them with an improvement. For example, I see (from my high chair at the children&#8217;s table) the move in recent years to &#8220;pairing&#8221; craft beer and holding expensive dinners (in addition to celebrity brewers) as just another in a line of attempts to find that sort of improvement, to stake a claim for craft beer to greater cultural validity beyond its place in (and defined by) the market.  But it seems overly self-conscious and, also, unnecessary.  Frankly, given the slight tinge of neediness, I am surprised a Canadian didn&#8217;t come up with the idea. </p>
<p>No, we don&#8217;t find a revolution when we go looking because we are in the midst of evolution. A slower process but also more steadfast.  Until it is replaced by the next thing &#8211; as is always the case with pop culture.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe S.</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/come-on-in-the-fringe-is-fine/comment-page-1/#comment-250592</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:05:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/?p=1929#comment-250592</guid>
		<description>Really enjoyed reading that issue. I wish they&#039;d put Burt Reynolds on the cover again. Oh well, maybe DRAFT will do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really enjoyed reading that issue. I wish they&#8217;d put Burt Reynolds on the cover again. Oh well, maybe DRAFT will do it.</p>
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