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	<title>Comments on: Barrels II: What&#8217;s the point?</title>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/barrels-ii-whats-the-point/comment-page-1/#comment-92641</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 02:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/barrels-ii-whats-the-point/#comment-92641</guid>
		<description>Oh, I started with wood and moved on.  I am &quot;showing my work&quot; as my grade 8 math teacher called it.  And I am doing it all over your blog!  Yuk.

I think, though, that more could be done to differentiate the two concepts so that it was clearer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I started with wood and moved on.  I am &#8220;showing my work&#8221; as my grade 8 math teacher called it.  And I am doing it all over your blog!  Yuk.</p>
<p>I think, though, that more could be done to differentiate the two concepts so that it was clearer.</p>
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		<title>By: Stan Hieronymus</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/barrels-ii-whats-the-point/comment-page-1/#comment-92580</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan Hieronymus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 23:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/barrels-ii-whats-the-point/#comment-92580</guid>
		<description>Alan. My apologies, but we&#039;ve been having two parallel conversations.

I&#039;ve been talking about the influence of wood itself (tannins, coconut from American oak, etc.) and excluding &quot;critters.&quot; Simply because because my conversations with brewers have been focused on what is new.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan. My apologies, but we&#8217;ve been having two parallel conversations.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been talking about the influence of wood itself (tannins, coconut from American oak, etc.) and excluding &#8220;critters.&#8221; Simply because because my conversations with brewers have been focused on what is new.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/barrels-ii-whats-the-point/comment-page-1/#comment-92534</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 21:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/barrels-ii-whats-the-point/#comment-92534</guid>
		<description>...and what about &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://zythophile.wordpress.com/2007/10/07/the-woodbegoods/#comment-136&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;stock&lt;/a&gt;&quot; anyway?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;and what about &#8220;<a href="http://zythophile.wordpress.com/2007/10/07/the-woodbegoods/#comment-136" rel="nofollow">stock</a>&#8221; anyway?</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/barrels-ii-whats-the-point/comment-page-1/#comment-92527</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 21:18:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/barrels-ii-whats-the-point/#comment-92527</guid>
		<description>And just so that you will know I am not just a kook but in fact a student in search of knowledge, have a look at the website for the Society for the Preservation of Beers from the Wood:
http://www.spbw.com/history.html

&quot;After a few years, realising that metal casks were rapidly replacing wooden ones, the Society decided to relax its principles accordingly. Nowadays only about a dozen breweries use wooden casks at all, and the SPBW is more concerned with the contents than the container, &lt;b&gt;which we accept makes little or no difference to the taste of the beer&lt;/b&gt;.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And just so that you will know I am not just a kook but in fact a student in search of knowledge, have a look at the website for the Society for the Preservation of Beers from the Wood:<br />
<a href="http://www.spbw.com/history.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.spbw.com/history.html</a></p>
<p>&#8220;After a few years, realising that metal casks were rapidly replacing wooden ones, the Society decided to relax its principles accordingly. Nowadays only about a dozen breweries use wooden casks at all, and the SPBW is more concerned with the contents than the container, <b>which we accept makes little or no difference to the taste of the beer</b>.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/barrels-ii-whats-the-point/comment-page-1/#comment-92523</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 21:08:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/barrels-ii-whats-the-point/#comment-92523</guid>
		<description>I know.  I was just nipping it in the bud!  ;-)

I realize that barrels were sometimes tarred and also the passing of beer through a wooden union was different than the storage of it or dispensing from it.  But there is a difference between the goal of passing on no flavours and the perfection.  It would seem reasonable that there were characteristics conveyed.  Plus, with early porter at least, was not the tang imparted from the repeated use of the massive wooden holding barrels?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know.  I was just nipping it in the bud!  <img src='http://appellationbeer.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I realize that barrels were sometimes tarred and also the passing of beer through a wooden union was different than the storage of it or dispensing from it.  But there is a difference between the goal of passing on no flavours and the perfection.  It would seem reasonable that there were characteristics conveyed.  Plus, with early porter at least, was not the tang imparted from the repeated use of the massive wooden holding barrels?</p>
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		<title>By: Stan Hieronymus</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/barrels-ii-whats-the-point/comment-page-1/#comment-92515</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan Hieronymus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/barrels-ii-whats-the-point/#comment-92515</guid>
		<description>A few sources:

- Dr. Paul Farnsworth, who began working in in breweries in his hometown of Burton-on-Trent when he was 16. Last week, while drinking Firestone Walker beer, we discussed the days when he was involved maintaining a &quot;Burton Union.&quot; The goal was to pass on no wood character.
- Bill Vollmar, recently retired archivist at Anheuser-Busch. During an off-the-wall discussion about A-B&#039;s short-lived American Originals series in the mid 1990s.
- &lt;a href=&quot;http://zythophile.wordpress.com/2007/10/07/the-woodbegoods/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Martyn Cornell&lt;/a&gt;: Wood flavours were fine in chardonnay, or scotch, but not in IPA or porter.

That said, I&#039;ve heard people refer to the wood firkins used by Samuel Smith and describe a wood flavor. Maybe that&#039;s what Line was talking about.

Additionally, I don&#039;t know of any American brewers who refer to wood-aging per se as pioneering. That&#039;s a phrase off the top of my head.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few sources:</p>
<p>- Dr. Paul Farnsworth, who began working in in breweries in his hometown of Burton-on-Trent when he was 16. Last week, while drinking Firestone Walker beer, we discussed the days when he was involved maintaining a &#8220;Burton Union.&#8221; The goal was to pass on no wood character.<br />
- Bill Vollmar, recently retired archivist at Anheuser-Busch. During an off-the-wall discussion about A-B&#8217;s short-lived American Originals series in the mid 1990s.<br />
- <a href="http://zythophile.wordpress.com/2007/10/07/the-woodbegoods/" rel="nofollow">Martyn Cornell</a>: Wood flavours were fine in chardonnay, or scotch, but not in IPA or porter.</p>
<p>That said, I&#8217;ve heard people refer to the wood firkins used by Samuel Smith and describe a wood flavor. Maybe that&#8217;s what Line was talking about.</p>
<p>Additionally, I don&#8217;t know of any American brewers who refer to wood-aging per se as pioneering. That&#8217;s a phrase off the top of my head.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/barrels-ii-whats-the-point/comment-page-1/#comment-92514</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/barrels-ii-whats-the-point/#comment-92514</guid>
		<description>I wonder how much of that is true.  In his 1970s text, David Line talks about the common nature of beer from the wood when he was younger and how he missed it.  It may be that they wanted to keep out some tastes (such as souring) but were not concerned with others (such as mellowing). Remember - most of the claims to pioneering is not relating to wodden barrels but to long storage in previously used barrels.  But, then again, I am especially suspect of claims to pioneering, as you can imagine, when they are made in relation to techniques that are hundreds of years old.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder how much of that is true.  In his 1970s text, David Line talks about the common nature of beer from the wood when he was younger and how he missed it.  It may be that they wanted to keep out some tastes (such as souring) but were not concerned with others (such as mellowing). Remember &#8211; most of the claims to pioneering is not relating to wodden barrels but to long storage in previously used barrels.  But, then again, I am especially suspect of claims to pioneering, as you can imagine, when they are made in relation to techniques that are hundreds of years old.</p>
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		<title>By: Stan Hieronymus</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/barrels-ii-whats-the-point/comment-page-1/#comment-92500</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan Hieronymus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/barrels-ii-whats-the-point/#comment-92500</guid>
		<description>In fact, Alan, with a few exceptions (like the Belgians), historically brewers went to great effort to keep barrels/wood from influencing the flavor of beers.

That&#039;s why today&#039;s brewers could be described as wood pioneers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In fact, Alan, with a few exceptions (like the Belgians), historically brewers went to great effort to keep barrels/wood from influencing the flavor of beers.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why today&#8217;s brewers could be described as wood pioneers.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/barrels-ii-whats-the-point/comment-page-1/#comment-92499</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:41:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/barrels-ii-whats-the-point/#comment-92499</guid>
		<description>It is also important to remember that beer on the wood is a commonplace except for the last 40 years.  Beers of all strengths are quite capable of being improved or even just defined by the time it spends on the wood whether 18 days or 18 months.  As with early homebrewing, it is always easier to handle the sorts of bigger fuller beers to ensure the brewer&#039;s challenges are best accomodated.  In any case, the lighter and more sessionable the craft beer, the more careful the brewer must be. This is no different with the right selection of the barrel and the use of that barrel with any particular beer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is also important to remember that beer on the wood is a commonplace except for the last 40 years.  Beers of all strengths are quite capable of being improved or even just defined by the time it spends on the wood whether 18 days or 18 months.  As with early homebrewing, it is always easier to handle the sorts of bigger fuller beers to ensure the brewer&#8217;s challenges are best accomodated.  In any case, the lighter and more sessionable the craft beer, the more careful the brewer must be. This is no different with the right selection of the barrel and the use of that barrel with any particular beer.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Delia</title>
		<link>http://appellationbeer.com/blog/barrels-ii-whats-the-point/comment-page-1/#comment-92498</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Delia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:39:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://appellationbeer.com/blog/barrels-ii-whats-the-point/#comment-92498</guid>
		<description>Paradox actually sounds very enticing, myself being a Scotch lover and a big fan of Islay. I&#039;ve been trying to keep an eye out for beers with a peaty, smoky essence to them, mainly from Scotch barrel-aging. For the most part, I&#039;ll give pretty much any aged offering a go.

To be honest though, I&#039;ve come across some pretty horrid barrel-aged concoctions, and to be fair, some really great ones as well. I think the key is not, as you mentioned, overwhelming the base beer (provided that it&#039;s any good to begin with). I had the Bourbon barrel-aged Bell&#039;s Third Coast recently and was not a big fan. If I want parching oak, I&#039;ll bite a tree; if I want bourbon, I&#039;ll buy a bottle. I don&#039;t mean to single any particular beer out, and love Bell&#039;s, but I was let down with this one like many others I expected to be great.

With many of these, I&#039;m asking that same question: what&#039;s the point?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paradox actually sounds very enticing, myself being a Scotch lover and a big fan of Islay. I&#8217;ve been trying to keep an eye out for beers with a peaty, smoky essence to them, mainly from Scotch barrel-aging. For the most part, I&#8217;ll give pretty much any aged offering a go.</p>
<p>To be honest though, I&#8217;ve come across some pretty horrid barrel-aged concoctions, and to be fair, some really great ones as well. I think the key is not, as you mentioned, overwhelming the base beer (provided that it&#8217;s any good to begin with). I had the Bourbon barrel-aged Bell&#8217;s Third Coast recently and was not a big fan. If I want parching oak, I&#8217;ll bite a tree; if I want bourbon, I&#8217;ll buy a bottle. I don&#8217;t mean to single any particular beer out, and love Bell&#8217;s, but I was let down with this one like many others I expected to be great.</p>
<p>With many of these, I&#8217;m asking that same question: what&#8217;s the point?</p>
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